Twelve Minutes

Twelve Minutes

12 Achievements

1,000

2-3h

PC
Xbox One
Xbox Series
Log in or Register to track Twelve Minutes achievements progress.
Seasons

Seasons

Observe all variations of the LIVING ROOM painting.

80

2.54%

How to unlock the Seasons achievement in Twelve Minutes - Definitive Guide

This achievement needs you to look at the painting above the couch in the living room 4 times in total.
You can collect missing ones in different playthrough
, so it's not missable.
If you did the "Mindfulness" - Ending:

The paintings won't be able to collect through multiple playthroughs if you delete your data in the options. So don't do this!
This guide contains spoilers!

Like the name suggests, there are 4 paintings showing the 4 seasons.
Edit1: It seems there are a total of 5 different pictures. You still need 4 of them. It's recommended to always look at the pictures after a loop starts again. Possible is that there are 2 spring or summer versions.
Spring:
Right at the beginning.
It shows two trees with green leaves.

Summer:
After you ate the dessert with your wife and completed this dialogue with her (at least until the dancing part) and got killed the first time.
It shows one tree with green and the other (the left one) with yellow leaves which can be hard to recognize. Additionally the sun is more present here.

Fall:
After you had the first "friendly cop" loop in which he talks about the "monster" and the man thinks that everything's over. Don't reveal the monster at this point.
It shows a stormy scene with reddish brown leaves on the trees.

Winter:
After you revealed that you are the monster and answered to the father that you will stay with your wife.
If you did the "Alone" - Ending:
It shows a snowy scene where the trees have no leaves anymore.
42
7

20 Aug 2021 08:07

72 Comments
I already got the achievement and played one playthrough :D but thanks! I will keep this in mind. I replay right now to test this out and complete this guide. I thought it could be useful to show others what I got so far for sure! :3
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 09:08
No worries man I appreciate it I was just curious on how you got fall, I believe you lol I was able to figure out and make a guide for all three flowers if you need it 👌
0
0
By Nevouti on 20 Aug 2021 09:14
Fall happens probably after the first "friendly" encounter with the cop, when the wife explains everything to him, he reveals the "monster" stuff, receives the watch and promises to find the killer. Or at least I noticed the change after that.
0
0
By MrLiverbird on 20 Aug 2021 09:15
Okay, for fall, I played the friendly cop scene in different ways. And only if you get the monster information like MrLivebird said the painting changes to fall. I'll add this now! :D
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 09:26
Oh boy, so it is finished now. And I'm really curious about mindfulness. I still have ideas about this. But it's nice to have such a riddle Noone knows until now
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 09:45
Ah, I would be happy if you upvote my solution if it's good and helpful xD
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 09:50
Hm ok I can 100 percently say that on my playthrough a few minutes ago it was like I wrote..
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 10:38
I can't get it to change to summer
0
0
By Vermil on 20 Aug 2021 10:44
@Vermil What did you do? What happened?
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 10:46
I’m going to restart in a moment and go through things again. I’ll post my findings.
0
0
By Tom Live v7 on 20 Aug 2021 10:47
OK thanks Tom! Me too. Doing summer again right now
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 10:48
I've tried like 4 different deaths on fresh playthrough and it hasn't changed to summer yet
0
0
By Vermil on 20 Aug 2021 10:52
I suggest that this is connected to something else... Like convince the wife of the time traveling by giving her 2 proofs, for example the present with baby clothes (you hVe to know about it) and the thunder or the watch in the bathroom (you hVe to know about it from the cop)
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 10:57
So seems the others.. For me the changes were at the mentioned points.. Interesting that these all seem to be more hideous.. Then they have to be triggered differently.. I'm on it!
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 10:59
I’m thinking it’s because I know things already so I’m skipping past them. I’m going to attempt a slow play through to see if I get alternatives.
0
0
By Tom Live v7 on 20 Aug 2021 11:02
I'm not sure about this spring/summer thing. For me right at the beginnig and on the day after husband gets killed the painting is the same. I don't know if it's spring or summer but the left tree is kinda yellow so it's summer I guess.
0
0
By MrLiverbird on 20 Aug 2021 11:04
So it seems summer was what I had missed; it looks very similar to spring. Anyway I did a fresh start, looked at the painting, had dessert like normal (nothing else), then when the cop came he killed me and the painting changed to what I believe is summer. Previously I had been skipping over the dessert and doing other things before being killed.
0
0
By Tom Live v7 on 20 Aug 2021 11:05
So, the dessert seems to be a thing 🤔
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 11:30
I added the dessert information now and that the leafs can be hard to see at the first change. I hope this is clearing it up. Maybe you even have not to be killed for this. Maybe a good outcome eating dessert can make the difference. Like stunning the wife with the sleeping pills, still eating the pudding, knock the cop out with the switch and interrogate him about informations. As long as you eat the dessert with the wife
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 11:43
BTW. It's nice to make this guide with you guys, big thank you for this. It's nice to play a game on release and stick our heads together to understand how this works! toast
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 11:46
Definitely. If you have dessert and die it will trigger the summer painting. After that you can take all the options to trigger the “friendly cop” storyline (do not reveal the monster) and that will trigger the autumn/fall painting. Then reveal the monster and it will trigger the winter painting.
0
0
By Tom Live v7 on 20 Aug 2021 11:50
Don't need to be at one run, I missed the Spring and when I started a new game and saw the picture, the achievement unlocked.
0
0
By LuanZuliani on 20 Aug 2021 12:22
@Luan watch at the beginning of my guide ;) but still thanks for the advice :D I will highlight it :D
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 12:27
@LightningSoule We got there in the end. I like understanding the triggers. Also I think the difference between the paintings is that the clouds from spring aren’t present in summer; they are replaced by a sun.
0
0
By Tom Live v7 on 20 Aug 2021 12:40
True! :D sun in summer? Sounds strange for me in Germany xD will add this, didn't thought about the sky for more information or points to fix at :D
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 12:44
Wow, 3 times is a lot. And you watched the painting after every loop? Which one do you miss? And you clicked on it right?
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 13:09
Okay so I’m a little confused now as I had seen a cloudy painting at the beginning and another cloudy with slight sun breaking through after that. Now I’ve seen one that has to be summer because it’s a clear blue sky with three trees. An even stranger thing is that when I died it changed to the yellow tree/cloudy with sun painting.
0
0
By Tom Live v7 on 20 Aug 2021 13:48
100% there are five paintings. The two in the video @MrLiverbird shows are the two I was referring to as spring and summer earlier but the clear blue sky one has to be summer and those other two must be spring and something else.
0
0
By Tom Live v7 on 20 Aug 2021 13:53
I missed summer, if i reset my progression, the achievement will unlock just by watching it or i need to redoing all of the seasons?
0
0
By Ebizu on 20 Aug 2021 17:22
If you decide to forget everything you just need the summer one.

Sorry guys, but is it not clear enough in the solution? ^^ it's the second time mentioning or asking if or that It can be done in multiple plathrougs.
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 18:21
@tom but livebird said he needed summer. So this leads us to two possibilities: we need 5 paintings, or the one he showed to get the achievement is summer. And if this is summer, I would stay at the point that summer is the painting with the left tree wearing yellow leaves. If the sun or a third tree ist there isn't that important. Or am I missing something in my conclusion?
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 18:31
Nice a down vote without comment for much effort :3
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 18:33
@LightningSoule All I know is I definitely saw autumn/fall (storm) and winter (snow) in my first play through and when I reset I saw the beginning painting (two trees with some clouds), and then after doing the dessert thing I saw the three trees painting (cloudy with a sun) and got my achievement. It was afterwards I found the clear blue sky painting (three trees again), which soon reverted back. Perhaps I had previously looked at that one or it’s simply not necessary for the achievement. I may never know now.

Also don’t worry about downvotes. The solution is new and there will be plenty of people using it and not voting.
0
0
By Tom Live v7 on 20 Aug 2021 19:20
@Neverreadyfries By ‘summer’ do you mean the clear blue skies painting?
0
0
By Tom Live v7 on 20 Aug 2021 22:08
Okay. That's good information... I will add this. I mean, even if we know there are just 4 regular seasons, who's saying that we just have to look on 4 of these 5 paintings that seem to exist. Phew, seems this needs to get clarified by playthrougs. But even then, we only can say for sure with 5 dummy accounts leaving one of these paintings until the end..
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 22:13
However, I'm really sure that I got a painting with 2 green and 1 yellow tree and a clear blue sky with a sun. Without clouds.
0
0
By LightningSoule on 20 Aug 2021 22:15
@Tom Live v7 The one with the three green trees, yes.
0
0
By Neverreadyfries on 20 Aug 2021 22:32
@Ebizu and for anyone else interested: I'd completed the game and had to come back for the paintings. The achievement popped for me after viewing the missed versions, I didn't have to wait for the late game versions I'd already seen. So it would seem this achievement tracks across playthroughs
0
0
By MattyJWest on 21 Aug 2021 12:29
So glad this tracks over multiple playthroughs. I had viewed them all other than the very first one. After completing the story, went back and viewed the very first picture and the achievement unlocked.
0
0
By DementedSquire7 on 21 Aug 2021 12:56
FYI, it only tracks over multiple playthroughs IF your save file remains intact. If you delete your progress via the advanced options (which is necessary to play after the Mindfulness ending or after the bug with the Continue ending), you’ll need to do it all over again. I experienced the bug, so I had to go through each one again.

It’s fine if the game starts over (as in, back from the hallway) though.
0
0
By TheCMHammond on 22 Aug 2021 04:27
What LausDomini suggested worked for me. I missed the summer variation as well, and went through the Mindfulness ending, reset the clock to 11:58, did Continue, and then picked it up on the fresh run after being killed the first time.
0
0
By Obi TW0 on 24 Aug 2021 15:53
Nice, I'm glad that it worked for you. However, I tried to put these tips with the endings and multiple playthroughs in my guide. Isn't it clear enough? Then I would try to rework it.
0
0
By LightningSoule on 24 Aug 2021 16:59
What is meant by "multiple playthroughs" and "missable" exactly? I'm confused by the achievement guide here. You say the achievement isn't missable... and yet, if you miss the summer painting, you have to reset your save and do another "playthrough"? Wouldn't that make the achievement missable?
0
0
By MajimaActual on 26 Aug 2021 18:11
There’s no clear explanation abou how to trigge the friendly cop loop is unfortunately. This is just really confusing all around. I’ve beaten the game, and I’ve reset my progress. And I’m just trying to figure out what to do to get to the “friendly cop” loop so I can see the fall painting.
0
0
By MajimaActual on 27 Aug 2021 00:09
I missed the first 2 paintings how can I go back and get them without resetting progress as you stated this achievement is not missable
0
0
By DeadSamurai77 on 27 Aug 2021 00:19
No, with not missable I mean that you can go on the ne cycle of the game, so reset it, and collect the missing one like mentioned. So if you miss the fall one in your fist playthrough, you can get this in your second one and don't need to collect the others like the winter one to get this achievement.

If you played the game already you should know that the friendly cop loop starts when you talked to his daughter to listen to you on the phone and talked with your wife about the loops so that she's believing you about it. And let her know what the cop is coming for eg.
0
0
By LightningSoule on 27 Aug 2021 00:22
@DeadSamurai77 It isn't missable because your progress will go with you in the next playthrough. So if you play further, you can get fall and winter and then repeat the missing spring and summer.
0
0
By LightningSoule on 27 Aug 2021 00:35
So heads up, I haven’t upvoted or downvoted the solution. I definitely don’t like to downvote unfairly.

I’ve beaten the game but it still seems more difficult than it needs to be to follow some of these guides. When I think of the monster part it has nothing to do with a friendly cop. When I think of the monster part I think of the part of the game where I show the cop the onesy while he’s tied up, and them I realize the nanny was my mom. So I assume that’s what I have to do and then I can see the fall painting. But i just have to figure out how to get to that point. I have to sort of relearn the puzzle solutions after having beaten the game.
0
0
By MajimaActual on 27 Aug 2021 00:59
"If you played the game already you should know that the friendly cop loop starts when you talked to his daughter to listen to you on the phone and talked with your wife about the loops so that she's believing you about it. And let her know what the cop is coming for eg."

Thanks. This helped me trigger the fall painting. Got the 1000 gamerscore. Upvoted.
0
0
By MajimaActual on 27 Aug 2021 03:08
Can someone please confirm whether it is possible to reverse the order of the paintings? I'm trying to trigger Summer to no avail and my current painting remains on Winter.
0
0
By Yazite on 31 Aug 2021 08:24
You can't go back in the order system. When you are on winter now you have to give up your memory to restart the game and the loops. When you are playing then until the painting you need and you already got the fall and winter version from the playthrough you are in, you can finish this achievement by collecting the summer one.
0
0
By LightningSoule on 31 Aug 2021 09:42
Yep thanks. I reset my save and found out all I needed was spring. That was lucky. It’s worth adding to the solution that the progress tracks across different saves as mine popped as soon as I viewed the spring painting after resetting my save.
0
0
By Yazite on 31 Aug 2021 11:18
You mean resetting in the options?
0
0
By LightningSoule on 31 Aug 2021 11:20
Sorry I should have specified, It was after the continue ending that my save reset and the progress continued to track. I assumed it has the same outcome if you manually reset it in advanced options but I can't confirm that. I can confirm progress continues to track if you do the continue (forget everything) end.
0
0
By Yazite on 31 Aug 2021 11:22
Okay, because I mentioned this in the first sentence of my guide ^^ the sentence with the multiple playthrough. I will specify it with the continue ending.
0
0
By LightningSoule on 31 Aug 2021 11:57
I'm sorry for potentially asking this for the umpteenth time but even after reading the comments I'm a little confused.

If I delete my progress in options can I still get this without having to redo absolutely everything? I.e. I have winter etc. Can I get to season 2 on a fresh save and still get the achievement?

If not is there a way to keep my progress towards this achievement by doing a particular ending that puts me back at the start?

I rly hope this makes sense. I'm basically trying to not have to do a full playthrough from scratch just for this achievement.

Please bear in mind that I have NOT done the "do nothing" achievement yet on this save. The Listen Let it Be achievement
0
0
By FiveWizz on 01 Sep 2021 10:30
It does. I got Let it Be straight after doing the Continue ending.
0
0
By Yazite on 01 Sep 2021 10:51
Thanks Lightning Soule and Yazite!
Achievement popped on first loop before doing anything. Apparently that was the one I missed. Nice one.
0
0
By FiveWizz on 01 Sep 2021 10:59
I've done this twice now... still no achievement :(
0
0
By Specialist01 on 29 Dec 2021 11:33
If you delete your data, it will still continue where you left off at when you play again. It's saved via cloud.
0
0
By Guile132 on 05 Jan 2022 14:06
If you miss one, you only have to go up unto to the one that you missed
0
0
By MrKoolxDood on 31 Jan 2022 19:48
I replayed the game, looking at every picture and still no achievement.

Edit- Started again, and had the achievement pop after we ate dessert and I looked at the picture. I think this was one I had not seen at all before, it had two trees and a bush.
0
0
By bl4ck blooc on 31 Aug 2022 19:17
Okay question I have is how to trigger fall? I got the other three, thanks man! Also should mention I believe the winter ending comes (spoiler!!!) from either telling the wife the truth or talking to the father, keep in mind once your at a certain season you can’t go back as well (just FYI) :)
0
0
By Nevouti on 20 Aug 2021 08:49
Sorry but I don’t think this is correct. I found out about the monster from the cop by him talking with the wife and after he left there was no change. I did the encounter again and confessed and that’s when the painting changed to winter. I hadn’t said to the father I want to stay with the wife.
0
0
By Tom Live v7 on 20 Aug 2021 10:21
Can't for the life of me trigger this achievement, I beat the game 3 times already watched the paintings every day and it doesn't trigger.

Edit: I was missing the Fall one, I must have passed throw it fast because I already had the baby clothes
0
0
By Fonslayer on 20 Aug 2021 13:05
Okay, that makes sense now, it was summer that I was missing as well. Spring and summer do not differ very much, the biggest difference is the third little tree in the middle on the summer painting. I got this achievement on the second game day after having the dessert on the first. I made a vid: https://youtu.be/TYpQfFMfAws
0
0
By MrLiverbird on 20 Aug 2021 13:43
@TheCMHammond that's wrong. If you do the mindfulness ending you are in the starting menu with only the options available. Did you try to interact with the clock like in the whole game? Because you can do the same procedure like in the alone ending here. If the clock stand on 2 minutes before 12 the continue button will appear again.
0
0
By LightningSoule on 22 Aug 2021 11:03
I missed summer the first time around and got it pretty quickly on a second playthrough, having never deleted any save data. At the end of the game I did the Mindfulness achievement, then on the main menu put the clock back two minutes to get the continue option to show up, and then did the Continue achievement. After the Continue achievement the game started over so I ate dessert with the wife and got killed, and on the next loop clicked the summer painting for my final achievement.
0
0
By LausDomini on 23 Aug 2021 03:16
I don’t think anyone can confirm about manually resetting your save, but doing the continue ending will serve the same purpose and allow the progress to continue tracking. So doing that will suffice your issue.
0
0
By Yazite on 01 Sep 2021 10:40
Yes excellent thanks. I've just realised that too and I think it will work as you have suggested.
Just in the middle of trying that now.

I should have known this but I actually never did this ending properly I just popped the achievement for the continue ending and did the delete save trick to try a different one

Thank you

Edit: Can confirm it also let's you unlock the Let it Be achievement as Yazite said.
0
0
By FiveWizz on 01 Sep 2021 10:42
Alright, from what I can tell when trying to get the painting to transition from Spring to Summer, it's important to tell the wife you're ready for dessert quickly and not letting the process get delayed too long (not sitting down, not opening the package, etc.).

I was messing around with other things beforehand and the cop ended up interrupting while the couple were still sitting at the table. The painting didn't change after being strangled. When they got to the point where they were interrupted while dancing and then killed was when it finally changed.

It's hard to say exactly given the convoluted event triggers in this game, but my best guess is that the discussion about the baby needs to finish before the picture changes to Summer.
0
0
By Neverreadyfries on 20 Aug 2021 20:27
Well I've enjoyed this game a lot and I've attempted a few different things to make the clear blue skies painting appear again with no luck. Anyway I conclude that there are five paintings and we mostly understand the triggers. Maybe the name is what confuses us and they aren't seasons but rather weather variations instead.

Here's my list with the trigger actions included:
-Spring (two green trees, some clouds, some blue sky) [start]
-Summer (three green trees, clear blue skies) [unknown]
-Autumn/Fall (two green trees, one yellow tree, mostly cloudy, slightly visible circular sun) [dessert]
-“Storm” (three trees with less leaves, obvious visible storm) [friendly cop]
-Winter (two leafless trees, snow) [monster]
0
0
By Tom Live v7 on 21 Aug 2021 09:12
View all 72 comments Show less comments
This requires you to view the painting of the trees above the couch on four separate occasions. The painting will change seasons based on the loops you complete.

The loops you need to complete are:
Let It Be ("Listen (80G)")
Dinner
Is It Over?
The Truth

Make sure to view the picture after finishing each of these loops. Resetting your progress in the advanced options menu will reset this achievement, as will completing Ending #3 ("Continue (80G)") as that is the True Ending and completes the game.

Below is a full game walkthrough with all achievements and endings!


Achievement Timestamps:

0:00:00 - Listen Achievement
0:06:14 - Seasons Achievement (Step 1/4)
0:06:24 - Ouroboros Achievement (Step 1/3)
0:06:36 - Faun Achievement (Step 1/3)
0:13:45 - Seasons Achievement (Step 2/4)
0:14:08 - Fluidity Achievement
0:37:08 - Coward Achievement
1:12:51 - Groundhog Achievement
1:13:43 - Seasons Achievement (Step 3/4)
1:13:50 - Faun Achievement (Step 2/3)
1:36:08 - Confessed Achievement
1:36:10 - Seasons Achievement (Step 4/4)
1:36:28 - Ouroboros Achievement (Step 2/3)
1:36:50 - Faun Achievement (Step 3/3)
1:43:49 - Alone Achievement
1:44:25 - Gardener Achievement
1:48:26 - Mindfulness Achievement
1:54:03 - Continue Achievement
1:56:42 - Ouroboros Achievement (Step 3/3)

Loop Timestamps:

0:00:00 - Loop 1 (Let It Be) [Listen Achievement]
0:04:47 - Loop 2 (Dinner)
0:13:12 - Loop 3 (Question)
0:20:15 - Loop 4 (Witness)
0:27:27 - Loop 5 (Prove It)
0:33:04 - Loop 6 (Forgiven, Not Forgotten)
0:37:08 - Loop 7 (Betrayal) [Coward Achievement]
0:45:14 - Loop 8 (Don't Betray)
0:56:38 - Loop 9 (More Questions)
1:03:35 - Loop 10 (Is It Over?)
1:12:51 - Loop 11 (Perfect Day) [Groundhog Achievement]
1:22:02 - Loop 12 (Murderer)
1:26:51 - Loop 13 (The Truth)
1:36:08 - Loop 14 (Confession) [Confessed Achievement]
1:43:49 - Loop 15 (Ending #1) [Alone Achievement]
1:48:26 - Loop 16 (Ending #2) [Mindfulness Achievement]
1:54:03 - Loop 17 (Ending #3) [Continue Achievement]
14
1

22 Aug 2021 08:31

1 Comment
Brilliant guide! +1 from me!
0
0
By Kylespud on 22 Aug 2021 15:03
Our 100% walkthrough over at Achievement Land will get you all of the Achievements in less than 2 hours!

This locations of the different painting can be seen in the timestamps below under the "Seasons" heading.


Note on the three painting achievements. To be absolutely safe you could check each painting before the wife greets you every loop, adding no time to the playthrough. The ones I’ve identified may not be the only triggers.

01:22 “Listen” Ending Achievement
06:09 “Fluidity” Achievement
51:12 “Seasons” Living Room Painting Achievement
• Summer, spring, winter and autumn variants. Unsure what triggers the change, best to check each loop from the start of the game
• Loop @ 05:21
• Loop @ 12:45
• Loop @ 36:03
• Loop @ 50:32 (after the first father encounter)
54:08 “Groundhog” Ending Achievement + Part 1/3 of “Gardener” Achievement
01:02:10 “Confessed” Ending Achievement + Part 2/3 of “Gardener” Achievement
01:07:46 “Coward” Ending Achievement + Part 3/3 of “Gardener” Achievement
01:16:11 “Ouroboros” Kitchen Painting Achievement Unlocks
• 1st picture (egg) can be seen at the start of the game - Loop @ 05:21
• 2nd picture (cracked egg) can be seen after the first encounter with the father - Loop @ 50:32
• 3rd picture (snake circle) can be seen during the Alone ending loop - Loop @ 01:16:11
01:16:11 “Alone” Ending Achievement - “Ourboros” achievement above unlocked in same loop
01:22:37 “Mindfulness” Ending Achievement
01:27:32 “Continue” Ending Achievement
“Faun” Achievement
• Achievement didn’t appear on screen for me
• 1st painting (man holding woman) can be seen from the start of the game - Loop @ 05:21
• 2nd painting (woman moving away from man) can be seen after convincing the cop of wife’s innocence - Loop @ 36:03
• 3rd painting (man alone) can be seen after first encounter with the father - Loop @ 50:32
13
1

22 Aug 2021 05:45

8
1

30 Aug 2021 20:48

LightningSoule's guide has everything you need but I found the spring/summer thing the most confusing. I recorded my attempt at this and just succeeded. So I share (you might want to go to yt to read the vid's description):
8
1

20 Aug 2021 13:47

3 minute video guide
7
1

24 Aug 2021 03:32

This requires you to view the painting of the trees above the couch on four separate occasions. The painting will change seasons based on the loops you complete.
 
The loops you need to complete are:
 Make sure to view the picture after finishing each of these loops. Resetting your progress in the advanced options menu will reset this achievement, as will completing Ending #3 (Continue (80G)) as that is the True Ending and completes the game.
 
See the video under Continue (80G) for a full game walkthrough with timestamps!
0
0