Neverwinter

Sounds good, I'll add you via XBL if that's cool. Will likely need people when the rest of my crew is ready.

And oh yeah, 30 or 40 runs in now. Have all but 2 artifacts that are useful for TOMM (Black dragon and Vanguard's Banner)
If you have people, would potentially be willing to donate resources for the run in-game too.

Not really, the scaling in older content can be abysmal at times, this trial being no exception. I wouldn't say it's a ton harder now but not really easier either.

I think they're planning on keeping TOMM at around the same difficulty, seeing how things have been going. Mod 22 we're all going to be taking even more damage, so more things will go from survivable to 1-shots.

As long as you have a good group that knows the mechanics well and a BIS tank or two that know what they're doing, the new companion that gives flat damage reduction should make this slightly easier. It will be more survivable for the tank(s), and as long as the DPS know the mechanics there's no reason they should get 1 shot in TOMM.

Will do!

Eww. Thanks for the update!

I'm down to this being my only achievement left. I found a good group that liked to do trials, but they got stuck doing Tiamat 40 times a week and almost never ran TOMM.

That sucks Fuzz. They just dont want to run TOMM or they dont like the drops from Tomm?

The recent-ish new version of Tiamat replaced what TOMM used to be - deepest endgame players would run TOMM on repeat like 25 times a day every day while hanging out in party chat talking. Getting into those parties and chilling/making friends, very casually making it known you'd like to maybe pop in someday, without pressuring people to take you in, used to be the magic trick for this achievement. Made slotting in a person who hasn't finished it 1,000+ times already, simpler - since the people you need to be running it for a chance at a no death, were constantly running it.

It takes a group being willing to break away from their new "25 times a day every day with the bros" boss, go back to content they are now out of practice at, that gives worse rewards, for more effort. Annoying thing being, having a full group of people without all of that practice makes it super tough. Even with those people who have memorized every step, 2-3 deaths are normal. The new person they're willing to bring in almost always dies/bringing in 2 at once = no cape/achievement. And bonus, the no-death is still in that "harder" state mentioned in my last comment, so even the best players that focus on their DPS-only to top Paingiver to keep it fun, are out of practice on the new stuff that will 1 shot them, that their muscle memory from their last 2,500 clears has them locked into.

@Life: it's both, the best players in the game now do not want to run TOMM, they do not like that the TOMM they were used to now has new one-shots from balancing changes, and they also do not like the drops from TOMM.

You could be awesome enough at MMO guild politics/being a genuinely and consistently likable person to convince a squad of the best people in the game to support you, but would be very tough, and you'd need to spend a while in a guild building up rapports & friendships. You could potentially "buy" cape run, for 10s of millions of AD. Likely with the contingency that if everyone else no-deaths and you don't a few times, that's the service fulfilled. Even if "carried" you need to execute a giant mass of mechanics where if a single one is done wrong it's over, and they won't sit around forever. Or you could get a team of people with the same goal together. But getting people whose goal is purely capes, want to invest time "poorly" (10-20 TOMM runs a day every day for a month+ could be much better spent elsewhere) on that goal for the sake of the achievement/cape, who are are extraordinarily well geared (you can't make concessions, being a toxic sweaty-version of exclusionary is a requirement, if you're nice about including people without practically perfect gear then no achievement), on top of the full squad of these people having 2 hours a day every day at the same time who always show up, all who are this kind of player who don't already have a cape - rough achievement.

We're it me I'd pray for a huge nerf that makes it accessible. The other no-death achievement eventually got there, not totally impossible TOMM will get the same treatment. Although the other boss has about... 10 times less things to be cognizant of perfectly across the board for its no death, when it was un-nerfed and still at max difficulty. Being a pretty long-time MMO lover, TOMM is probably the most mechanic-heavy endgame large team boss of any game I've ever played. The newer bosses in NW are tougher due to gear needs, but the sheer volume of things that everyone needs to do perfectly and the complexity of those things added up in TOMM; even the people who have the raid on literal super-farm still have deaths on 95% of the runs if the team is 100% sweaties. Or at least if TOMM was made "easy" it'd be a rainbow of madness that somehow seems to not kill you, save for a few specific parts of the rainbow that are the only few dangerous ones. Would be weird to try and make "easy" for casual groups to finish. They may keep TOMM as-is. IDK - hope this is helpful for people thinking about climbing this mountain.

Thanks BR - validates my decision to avoid this game for the past few years tbh.

@The Globalizer I can guarantee you, this guy got carried. Dont listen to him or take it serious what he says. There was a trick where you still got the achievement while being dead.

@boki being an active and friendly guild member who sought out and consistently got into party chats was the primary "work" done, on top of having a technically more-or-less optimally geared Rogue - which was key to getting an invite to the guild in the first place. My team was 100x more experienced than me. I had maybe 10 clears of TOMM at the time/had just gotten into it. Everyone else had thousands. I'd sought out being in a situation where my attempts were no-death capable from the get-go after a lot of research to prep for being less-than useless to the team, so luck and being being not-terrible at the social end of things were the determining bits. Thankfully the drunk/stoned weekend chill and grind crew at 1 AM, the guildmaster pulled me in when someone else dropped and she didn't want to bother grabbing someone less available. Very fair to say I was carried.

My last comment was making the point that that option is now more-or-less off the table, and other options are extraordinarily more challenging.

@Blue Radiun just stop spreading lies and misinformation. I dont want to get into details about your "flawless" completion in TOMM.

Regarding your other part in the comment: No one is runnng tiamat anymore, at least RARELY (You can even run it with PUGS but not the master version). People are runing MTOS and Master gzemnid. I see it all the time on discord or protctors enclave. Band of air is trash now and got nerfed into the ground. Those 2 things alone (The tiamat part and band of air) are enough to show me that you dont know what you are talking about.

Odd I happened to check in on this achievement right when you left your comment - well if you have advice for people that'll work for them better than mine, to anyone reading please default to whatever works best for you to achieve your goal. My knowhow may very well be outdated and useless, haven't fired up the game in a little while and things are changing constantly

@Blue Radium did already this achievement and blue radium is right, i was helping a friend, there is now a mount on bazar that is insanely broken, vecna. You do like 90% more dmg, if all dps have it maybe you can destroy halaster fast and skip phases.

The brokenness of the mount is questionable. Its a roll of the dice as to whether it comes out ahead overall and you cant rely on the consistency of the boost, meaning not all your dps will benefit at the same time. At least if I understand the video the regular NW youtuber posted breaking it down.

Either way I feel like halaster is going to remain a tough one to do flawless for a good while yet.

I'm fairly certain it is yes. They shuffled around the qeues menu. I'll check next time I'm on.

@Voracity N Uhm... NO! He is NOT right. I know how far his character was when he got his achievement, and what he did to get it. There is NO skill or whatsoever involved what he did. And regarding the slab of vesna: What you said is not what is happening with the slab. It looks like that the mountpower you get will hit 90 % more damage IF the boss is not deflecting your accuracy AND it is affected TWICE by the combat advantage. In other words: You have to pray to get this damage. Also this works for melee characters. And because most people play wizards or warlocks, this will not work with them quite well.

Yeah thats what I was saying. Watching the YT video about it I could tell the slab isnt worth it.

I dunno its no skin off my nose if if works or not but the vid I watched (Aragon I think?) has a stat tracker on PC and basically showed if was lile 50/50 bc it didnt trigger a certain stat or something that effectively cut its utility in half. I'm no expert and only play a tank, and dont really understand the technical aspects of what he was saying, but IF he's right then maybe it isnt worth it. If it is more power to folks using it.

To add back in - @boki I completed the trial without dying as a fully contributing DPS - dodged every single 1-shot attack, played every mechanic correctly, alongside the team, while putting up competitive painbringer numbers. I don't see how there is no baseline skill component there.

I treated it mostly as a social challenge and it worked out - which is what I think you might be referring to, where you don't think the social side of MMOs is a skill. Being generally positive and nice and playing guild politics in a way where you're a genuinely supportive presence that uplifts the community being the key for me, which I see as a core skill for this genre, where lacking that skill is the primary block on unlocking this achievement in particular. Also centrally, not just making friends, but knowing how to find, get access to, building rapport with, and then becoming a part of the top-est tier of player community/making friends with those people specifically. Which is a two-step process - have the character build that makes it so you can join in on that, and then the much harder part, don't socially sabotage yourself anytime over a course of a few months and make friends.

Things like joining "practice" runs advertised on the Discord and being so overwhelmingly more useful than the other trainees that you can set yourself up to be invited to real runs, by being in the same party chat as the guild officer who was running the practice while they're doing real runs - without demanding an invite, just being nice and chill and clearly very useful and present, and setting up all the variables so they combine into you having a shot at a no death run, with your shot at it also supporting that officer's goals and the team's goals. Lots of little things like that. That's just one small example - thinking along those lines though, how can I position myself socially, how can I create a positive bias towards myself, how can I position myself to leverage that bias, etc. Being a thoroughly supportive person who uplifts others being how to lock that down.

A few Neverwinter achievements, mainly this one, somewhat require that in a way other MMOs only do if you go way beyond Xbox achievements. Going from barely not perfectly meta-built with 50 clears, to literally full meta-built with 1000 clears would have 100x less impact vs. going from being bad at making competent MMO friends to being good at making competent MMO friends, for this achievement, in my opinion. It's ensure nobody dies, not ensure just you don't die. Teamwork, among a full group of top .1% players, is the only way to make this particular dream work. Unless they nerf the content into the ground, which may happen at some point. I'd assume the achievement remains mostly an extreme social challenge, based on the recently won achievement list featuring nobody.

For the number-ee stuff, getting to where you have the numbers to fully contribute, other piece of advice - you just need to briefly play the market smart for a bit and be an MMO economist/same way you load up on the currency needed to reach full endgame in any other MMO - I dumped all my cash into Alpha Compies way back when they were re-released and sold them back off for 10x gains, when Alpha Compies were absurdly valuable, just finding the gaps in supply and demand and playing fantasy hedge fund manager for a sec to get the wealth needed, in the contemporary context. It's way easier than it seems at face value, just identify a thing everyone needs/really wants and notice when developers heavily mess with it, call your shot once or twice and currency is perma-ish solved. MMO economies are ultra volatile, reactionary, and predictable. Grinding your rough AD cap for years also works, and is needed to some degree to get the baseline currency to play with, but with a bit of extra effort there's regular ways to massively reduce that grind.

If there's a new super broken DPS-boosting item and nobody's got the achievement through it being a thing, doubly so on the social side being what matters. Going to need to get good players to dive back into content they're out of practice on - see prior comment for breakdown on challenges there. Like most of the toughest MMO achievements, being competent, kind, and super strategic at the same time = yay unlocks. Emperor in ESO, the PvP achievements in Bless Unleashed before is shut down, etc, you need to sorta socially engineer the outcome you want, and uplifting others at the same time/helping them get what they want however possible - with that also just so happening to support your goals/creating the scenario where they both happen - being how you do that effectively.

Might sound abstract - just build to where it's sensible to be invited to a highly competent guild, dig deep to help them accomplish their goals, then ask them politely to also help you accomplish yours, because you set things up to where everyone getting what they want is just how things work.

Are there any guilds helping people trying to get this? Please send me a message!

There is a new arm piece that increases dmg up to 20% if your item level is being scaled, or dmg resistance up ti 20% for tanks (not sure if tank one stacks if youve capped Defense at 90%, but if not could open up some stat room for more deflect and offensive stats). Those should help with this in theory. I think we're finally getting far enough out from this trial that end game geared groups around 90k will find flawless undermountain trending downward in difficulty.

All older content scales your item level and stats, but sooner or later players' damage outpaces that scaling. There theoretically is hope for people still needing this.

TOMM is unscaled, I just double checked. The biggest issue is that they bumped it up from 30K minimum item level to 50K a while ago, for no good reason. I'm 91K+ Cleric Heals, please add me for practice runs.

Hmmm surprised it is unscaled. It should be eventuallly I would imagine.

Same as the older Svargbord...
Devs fix the animation of characters and glyphworks, but not this...

congrats on the achievement, still can't find a consistent group, despite being in one of the most active alliances. kind of obnoxious

Yeah the only reason I got in is bc their group leader had run IC w me and knew I was a decent tank. Even then we ran 2 tanks (most flawless attemps run 1 tank 1 heal and 8 dps to have fewer phases), and an experienced player was doing callouts a few secs ahead of time so I had time to react. If I'd been a dps I woulda died a couple times by being too close to the middle. This def isnt one a group can "carry" someone for.

Never woulda happened though without the AD bounty incentive to make everyone focus and tryhard.

I finally got this achievement with my guild. We ran with 9 people instead of 10 as we had the DPS and removing that 10th person reduced the amount of cloud to ground/ground to cloud that everyone needed to avoid. I was the lowest ilvl at 33k, most everyone else was 35k+. I was fully stat capped and we all traded off a bit of power for HP. My HP was at 475k and everyone else was 450k+. My unbuffed power after pots was around 225-230k. I completed ToMM around 50 times before getting this. Practice makes perfect and the more you do this trial the easier it becomes as you know what to do and when. The hardest part is finding a group of players who you can consistently run with who are also good at the trial, because you need to rely on them to know what to do and to not die. This was done in Mod 19 which only has a few more days left before the combat rework in Mod 20.

Yeah with a group that can farm it, you skip most mechanics and create stacks of partially unpredictable other mechanics. Getting good at lightning mines is probably the toughest bit. Every single person needs essentially perfect mechanic execution from start to finish, and it's impossible to get "carried" beyond having a group way better than you on DPS that can enable the fight to get done in super burn then dodge mechanics stack mode. Just practice practice practice and don't get frustrated. Also be genuinely endgame-built, so that a group that can make the only problem being dodging one-shots will bring you in. Make friends and do MMO-ee stuff good and etc.

Update: TOMM keeps seeming to get made harder. Recently it was made so a few things you could survive with a raw DPS build can now one-shot you, forcing you to be super far endgame built with a bit of focus on defense/awareness/HP stats, as a DPS/healer. End result being, for the current Dragonslayer mod you need to be like ilvl 80k, the BiS gear everywhere version of 80k with Stronghold weapons and etc, not the just using biggest possible ilvl items everywhere and being half as strong because of it version, to have the defense needed + still having outstanding offense for high-competence groups to want to take you. As a DPS a Band of Air is now essentially a requirement, for still hitting the DPS good, skipping all "optional" mechanics and phasing the boss ASAP groups expect, while still built to not die. All-around the toughest it has been in a long time. Probably why the recent winners list has gone from 3 or 4 unlocks a month, to 0 unlocks for the last 2 months.

I assist in a training group in the guild Never Whatever every Sunday. they've almost got first guild comp.
They're getting close. If switching guilds is an option, consider coming over. Priority for comp will go to older members though. Then we'll start running people through comp carries.

The Relax guild has a regular group doing no death runs actually... :-o I'm not in any of the groups, but they've got quite a few already. I'm trying to get in the practice runs currently, but scheduling is a big problem

This should be a lot more doable in mod 20. Can presumably easily stack power in literally every spot possible while still hitting all necessary caps. You can already kind of do that in mod 19, but the next tier of built in HP and power boosts ought to create the cushion needed for some mechanics to have wiggle room. Many "I was just in the edge of staying alive" moments currently.

With the item level going up more these days, is this getting a little easier?

Power will have a cap in the next mod as will hp. They are getting rid of armor pen also.

I can't tell if people are being serious here or like trying to discourage others from using it so I'll just post the info.. they say the mount isn't worth it because it's 2m+ diamonds and it will just get patched out eventually. Also they don't really talk about it on YouTube correctly because the PC community that's trying to maximize farming results always flips out and they lose subscibers.. The math to my knowledge is pretty simple though. If a boss has 90% deflect you need 90% acc.. so you swap in rimefire retribution (-15% deflect), slowed reactions (7.5) and the blaspheme Assassin buff (-2%) to drop that down to 65.5. Then add cauldron fumes (+15%acc) and as long as you have 50% acc you are guaranteed to get the extra damage during the call. As far as the wizard thing, ya this won't hit as hard on magic classes but the bonus dmg from int is only like 10% so it should still hit harder then a toad or w/e. All in all seems like this is the exact type of thing that would help people who are close get the achievement and it kinda sucks how it just got dismissed. Especially when most of the people who got this all used w/e exploits were going on at the time like triple proc'ing companion rings, clerics giving 150k power or w/e other bs they could find. Maybe I'm wrong though.. always a possibility...

What guilds are you guys in? I'm in Relax it's just a game, and our alliance has a very active section of tomm beginner practice, 3rd phase practice, completion, and no-death run sections...

I was in RELAX but couldn’t get into a no-death group or many tomm runs. Had no problems completing it (over 40 runs) but was usually told to run consistently with my own group for the no death run. Was getting frustrated that nobody showed any interest so left to Never Whatever.

Working on training people now. At least i know ill get runs with my friends when they’re ready.

Math, if you need anyone for a training run, I'd love to join in. 27.5k DPS barbarian, at around 360k HP these days. Online a lot, happy to jump into Neverwinter for this.